S56 VHL Awards

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

The GM vote doesn't count the playoffs. Riga GM made moves that brought in players, and propelled his team from a bottom feeder straight to a contender. It's about the moves that were made and how much of an impact it had on the season. Riga did a 180.

 

Quebec was already decent the season before. Frank got rid of von Hohenzollern, Kronos, Komarov, Petenis, etc and brought in Maximoff and Abbott. His team was 4 forwards and 2 D.

[jRuutu 2,298]

2 minutes ago, hedgehog337 said:

Also, I need to point out I'm not the first GM who won the top GM award while not making into the finals.

 

Boubabi in S43, Advantage in S54, these are more recent cases.

 Frank won it with Advantage in s54, both got 5 votes... Frank got 5 votes when he lead us to finals in s54, but now when did the same, but also won the cup = 0 votes.

 

 

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm pretty sure I had Jokinen as my pick for Labatte too. I don't know wtf was with the separate thread thing, but those awards with few votes don't give me a good feeling. Sure, as a BoG I should have seen the separate thread.....but ya.

[jRuutu 2,298]

11 minutes ago, DollarAndADream said:

The GM vote doesn't count the playoffs. Riga GM made moves that brought in players, and propelled his team from a bottom feeder straight to a contender. It's about the moves that were made and how much of an impact it had on the season. Riga did a 180.

 

Quebec was already decent the season before. Frank got rid of von Hohenzollern, Kronos, Komarov, Petenis, etc and brought in Maximoff and Abbott. His team was 4 forwards and 2 D.

Why not reward the fact that Frank traded most of those players, but still next year we made the finals again and also won the cup?  How is that different on what Riga did?

 

Is it so amazing these days to see players get drafted into one team and actually stay there for long period of time?  No point even showing some respect and giving an award to the GM who manages to do that, keep players in the team? Instead you look for teams who have made trades and moves, then give top GM award to them, what about the GM who builds from the draft and is succesful?

Edited October 6, 2017 by jRuutu

[jRuutu 2,298]

5 minutes ago, DollarAndADream said:

Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm pretty sure I had Jokinen as my pick for Labatte too. I don't know wtf was with the separate thread thing, but those awards with few votes don't give me a good feeling. Sure, as a BoG I should have seen the separate thread.....but ya.

Worst part is that nobody remembers what happened here in few seasons, all they see are the award winners.

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

1 minute ago, jRuutu said:

Why not reward the fact that Frank traded most those players, but still next year we made the finals again and also won the cup?  How is that different on what Riga did?

 

Is it so amazing these days to see players get drafted into one team and actually stay there for long period of time?  No point even showing some respect and giving an award to the GM who manages to do that, keep players in the team? Instead you look for teams who have made trades and moves, then give top GM award to them, what about the GM who builds from the draft and is succesful?

Dude, I respect Frank a ton. I think he did a great job building that roster. I'm just giving you possible reasoning on why the BoG might have voted in Riga's favour.

[jRuutu 2,298]

Just now, DollarAndADream said:

Dude, I respect Frank a ton. I think he did a great job building that roster. I'm just giving you possible reasoning on why the BoG might have voted in Riga's favour.

My bet is that majority just picked what the previous ones picked and did 0 research.

[hedgehog337 3,480]

I forgot something, do I claim these award TPE for one or both players?

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

9 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

My bet is that majority just picked what the previous ones picked and did 0 research.

At the end of the day, Riga went from 8th to 1st place. He traded away picks to bring in an contending team, which was the best in the VHL, until the playoffs. He added Shankly, Ravenwing, De Rossi, Digital, MT Power, and Thrower. He also had his own players in there, Krigars, and draftees Slava Aleksei and Bogdanovic.

[Advantage 2,769]

8 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

My bet is that majority just picked what the previous ones picked and did 0 research.

Okay first off, fuck off.  We have discussions about this and don't just do that especially considering the voting is PRIVATE.

 

Second, it's a regular season award and always has been...just like the real NHL.  

 

Third, no one is saying Frank did a bad job.  He received the award a couple seasons ago for a drastic change of his team, just like Hedgehog did this year.  We look at moves over the case of the year and the difference in quality of the teams as it is a one season vote and not a career vote.  Frank is a terrific GM but Hedgehog simply did more with his team this year because yes, in a lot of cases, Frank didn't have to.  Thing is, Hedgehog got success beating out a better team than anyone in Quebec's Conference as it was pretty easy for them to finish first in the Conference with neither being a true competitor in Toronto and Calgary.

 

Voting isn't perfect, but don't just be a sourpuss when you don't even know that the award is regular season only.

 

 

[Advantage 2,769]

3 minutes ago, hedgehog337 said:

I forgot something, do I claim these award TPE for one or both players?

Both

[eaglesfan036 4,583]

We should just rename top GM award the Victory CUP award imo

 

@boubabi

[Advantage 2,769]

1 minute ago, Bring Back Chat said:

We should just rename top GM award the Victory CUP award imo

 

@boubabi

That's funny since only three times in the last ten seasons has it even gone to the team with the best record.

[Phil 5,010]

9 hours ago, BOOM said:

 

What defines a leader here in the VHL?

I am the Gold Standard haha

[boubabi 4,725]

16 minutes ago, Bring Back Chat said:

We should just rename top GM award the Victory CUP award imo

 

@boubabi

Amirite

 

But the top gm is pretty spot on this season tho

[Advantage 2,769]

2 hours ago, jRuutu said:

Also whats up with the top executive voting?

 

Cup winning GM did not even get 1 vote? Really? GM who brought first cup in who knows how many seasons to Quebec gets 0 votes? Award voting commitee really outdid themselves, hopefully whatever pay they get is worth it.. jesus christ. Should be fired right there on the spot

Also we don't get pay and the entire BOG is the Award Committee including Frank.

[der meister 2,903]

Playoff results don't matter when it comes to awards. It's pretty simple.

[Beketov 8,639]

1 hour ago, jRuutu said:

More than likely knew about it already, Beketov said the top GM was decided well before the cup was even won, which is just wrong.

How is it wrong? We could wait until the playoffs are done to start the discussion which would just make awards take longer to come out or we could do all the awards but playoff MVP in advance and just need to discuss 1 award and then vote on it.

 

At the end of the day it's a regular season award. If you disagree with that fact then fine, maybe we can look at it in the future. But the fact is that this season (and every season in the league) had it voted on as a regular season award. How well you did in the playoffs holds no bearing whatsoever because that's not what the award is about. If it were then the winning GM would simply take it 95% of the time. What would happen, for example, if a GM left and someone else came in and took control of a team that was already setup to win the cup. When they inevitably do does that GM deserve the top GM award because they won the cup? I know it's an extreme example but it's possible to have it happen. It makes more sense to remove the playoffs from the equation since they can be so random and have so few games. How a GM handles the regular season is far more telling. This season a team went from 8th to 1st; that's top GM worthy. Quebec went from 3rd last year to tied for 2nd this year. I'm not saying Frank didn't do a great job with the team, but it's no surprise that they did well either. He could have done nothing and likely received the same result.

 

Anyway, no point arguing about this. As people have said, Frank doesn't seem to be too heartbroken over it and the people who voted all have their reasons. Just so you are aware as well, the BOG is not a paid position. No need to imply anything related to that. 

[jRuutu 2,298]

1 hour ago, DollarAndADream said:

At the end of the day, Riga went from 8th to 1st place. He traded away picks to bring in an contending team, which was the best in the VHL, until the playoffs. He added Shankly, Ravenwing, De Rossi, Digital, MT Power, and Thrower. He also had his own players in there, Krigars, and draftees Slava Aleksei and Bogdanovic.

Frank traded players away and brought players in,  2nd/3rd best point rating during regular season, Riga was ahead by 5 points. 

 

No love for having strong core in place already, need to wheel and deal to get into the top-gm award talks?

[Advantage 2,769]

2 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Frank traded players away and brought players in,  2nd/3rd best point rating during regular season, Riga was ahead by 5 points. 

 

No love for having strong core in place already, need to wheel and deal to get into the top-gm award talks?

Well Frank voted and not for himself, so maybe ask him.  He got the love for that core when he won top GM before, as it rewarded that core there.

 

Isn't to say he doesn't deserve another...but in this case someone had him beat.

Edited October 6, 2017 by ADV

[Beketov 8,639]

2 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Frank traded players away and brought players in,  2nd/3rd best point rating during regular season, Riga was ahead by 5 points. 

 

No love for having strong core in place already, need to wheel and deal to get into the top-gm award talks?

Not true at all. Just that when another team's GM makes huge moves and goes from 8th to 1st it makes a pretty big splash.

 

It's not that what Frank did can never be considered for the award. It can and has before. It's just that this season there was a better candidate.

[CowboyinAmerica 2,705]

Hate to interrupt but yay for winning Rookie of the Year? OK, continue.

[jRuutu 2,298]

1 hour ago, ADV said:

Okay first off, fuck off.  We have discussions about this and don't just do that especially considering the voting is PRIVATE.

 

Second, it's a regular season award and always has been...just like the real NHL.  

 

Third, no one is saying Frank did a bad job.  He received the award a couple seasons ago for a drastic change of his team, just like Hedgehog did this year.  We look at moves over the case of the year and the difference in quality of the teams as it is a one season vote and not a career vote.  Frank is a terrific GM but Hedgehog simply did more with his team this year because yes, in a lot of cases, Frank didn't have to.  Thing is, Hedgehog got success beating out a better team than anyone in Quebec's Conference as it was pretty easy for them to finish first in the Conference with neither being a true competitor in Toronto and Calgary.

 

Voting isn't perfect, but don't just be a sourpuss when you don't even know that the award is regular season only.

 

 

Yea I can see how the communication clearly works when some awards get 4 or 5 votes in total.

 

Why not change it to take the playoffs into consideration as well? In NHL players need to actually work and improve their players in the practice, they cant coast it like welfare players can here, same sport, but different leagues in the end.

 

Why the top-gm award needs to be so heavily focused on making moves and trades? Is hedgehog now out of top-gm talks until he decides to start making trades again? 

 

How about you make sure your team of voters first vote in all of the awards before pointing me not knowing how some awards have terrible rules in place?

 

[der meister 2,903]

4 minutes ago, jRuutu said:

Yea I can see how the communication clearly works when some awards get 4 or 5 votes in total.

 

Why not change it to take the playoffs into consideration as well? In NHL players need to actually work and improve their players in the practice, they cant coast it like welfare players can here, same sport, but different leagues in the end.

 

Why the top-gm award needs to be so heavily focused on making moves and trades? Is hedgehog now out of top-gm talks until he decides to start making trades again? 

 

How about you make sure your team of voters first vote in all of the awards before pointing me not knowing how some awards have terrible rules in place?

 

 

Why it doesn't consider the playoffs has already been addressed. It's a silly concept to include that as well. 

 

If Hedgehog is able to lead Riga to another league-leading season, while losing the best defenseman in the league to retirement, then he should absolutely be in the discussion. You're looking at it in such a black-and-white way that it's frankly kind of mind-boggling. There are a lot of considerations to take into account. It doesn't have to be on making moves and trades. Drafting, player management in general [cap, for example], line tactics [if Shankly goes from 50 points to 120 points with minimal TPE improvement, you can probably cite that as good management more than anything], etc. 

[jRuutu 2,298]

41 minutes ago, Beketov said:

How is it wrong? We could wait until the playoffs are done to start the discussion which would just make awards take longer to come out or we could do all the awards but playoff MVP in advance and just need to discuss 1 award and then vote on it.

 

At the end of the day it's a regular season award. If you disagree with that fact then fine, maybe we can look at it in the future. But the fact is that this season (and every season in the league) had it voted on as a regular season award. How well you did in the playoffs holds no bearing whatsoever because that's not what the award is about. If it were then the winning GM would simply take it 95% of the time. What would happen, for example, if a GM left and someone else came in and took control of a team that was already setup to win the cup. When they inevitably do does that GM deserve the top GM award because they won the cup? I know it's an extreme example but it's possible to have it happen. It makes more sense to remove the playoffs from the equation since they can be so random and have so few games. How a GM handles the regular season is far more telling. This season a team went from 8th to 1st; that's top GM worthy. Quebec went from 3rd last year to tied for 2nd this year. I'm not saying Frank didn't do a great job with the team, but it's no surprise that they did well either. He could have done nothing and likely received the same result.

 

Anyway, no point arguing about this. As people have said, Frank doesn't seem to be too heartbroken over it and the people who voted all have their reasons. Just so you are aware as well, the BOG is not a paid position. No need to imply anything related to that. 

I did not say every cup winning GM deserves to win the top GM award or cup win = top GM.  All I´m saying is that maybe you should put some focus on the actual playoff performance as well, looks quite sily to me to award someone with the top-GM award just because his team played well in the regular season, even more silly if the GM who lead his team to all the way to finals and cup get 0 votes.

 

How is this current system any better anyways? Now you put so much weight into making moves and regular season that if you do some trades and have nice regular season = Top GM.

 

If you don´t do too many trades and have managed to put together nice core from the draft for example, you are the underdog or that is how it feels like now, why is that?