My Thoughts on Anderson, the VHLM

[JardyB10 4,834]

~*WARNING: This post got really long, and often disjointed, and I'm sorry. There's a much more concise TL;DR at the bottom.*~

 

Today was a pretty big shit pill for me to swallow as a VHLM GM.

 

As you may or may not have noticed, Anderson retired his goalie and re-created essentially just to maximize his chances to win a Founder's Cup this season. This was quite unfortunate for my Ottawa Lynx, as he was my first round draft pick, and I had him pegged to start this season and next, with him being ~2nd best goalie (and best active goalie) in the league by playoffs this season, and the best goalie across the board by next season. It would have been two solid competing seasons. I had a full plan for competing this season, but he never gave me a chance to share it, or even to communicate at all. Even if he didn't like the direction of the team, we maybe could have worked something out, whether it was a trade or me using my Rigging powers to turn him back into a forward or something. And if not, then he could have retired, and at least I tried. But I never got that chance, so that's particularly frustrating.

 

While I am upset with Anderson and would like nothing more than for this to somehow blow up in his face, this isn't meant to be a "Fuck that guy" thread, or a classic angry Jardy rant. Unforeseen shit screws over GMs all the time. And to be fair, with me working a new job, I haven't had a lot of time for the league the past three weeks, so I haven't been as on the ball as I could have. I meant to share my plans for the team in the LR last night yet, but by the time I showered and ate a very late supper, I couldn't keep my eyes open. Maybe if I scouted more before the draft instead of kind of winging it I may have found it would have been smarter to pick another skater up at 7th overall. Who knows.

 

But I digress, what this thread is really about is the VHLM as a whole.

 

The reason I became a VHLM GM in the first place was because I wanted to try to help it. I don't have the time anymore to take over as Jr. Commish and overhaul as I see fit though, so I tried to do it in my own way. People often talk about the VHLM being shitty and needing to change this and that to improve it. The consensus on the VHLM is that the goal, as a GM, isn't necessarily just to win, but to foster activity and create good vibes so that new members can get a positive introduction to the league and be integrated into the community.

 

And I agree with all of that to an extent. The VHLM did/does indeed to change this and that; I've always personally advocated a complete overhaul of the VHLM that includes a salary cap. And I do agree that the VHLM is a developmental league first, winning second.

 

However, I think being very competitive and winning is a big part of that positive experience for members, especially new ones. And you have a better chance of winning with veteran members and high TPE inactives. So my goal as a GM is to find a good a blend as I can with the restrictions of acquirable players in place. I obviously don't want exclusively veteran members and inactives just to rape the league, because then I'm essentially just spinning my wheels as far as the ultimate goal of being a VHLM GM is concerned.

 

And I think part of what spoils the VHLM is the ridiculous cyclical nature of it. The turnover of each team in the VHLM season to season is horrific. When I still simulated the VHLM, off-seasons were by far the worst time of my real life, as moving every single player in the league around (especially when you're less familiar with who they are and who they used to and currently belong to) is a tedious nightmare. But besides being shitty for Higgins, it's just shitty in general. How ridiculous is it that, in a (then) 8 team league, two teams have maximum legal rosters (which is ~20 players), while two have 0-2 players? The fact that teams are even allowed that many players is absurd on its own. In the VHL, our main parent league, it's uncommon for teams to carry much more than two lines worth of players (10 skaters). Obviously the minor league is going to be different/higher, as not ever created player makes the VHL, but to double it is fucking excessive. What ice time is an active player going to enjoy with four full lines of players? And if you aren't playing a line or two of players, why must they be on your roster at all? Of course, this happens because GMs like to completely unload all their players in a rebuild and get ALL the draft picks, and winning teams will do the opposite. Add to the mix that an inexplicable 6/8 teams make the playoffs, and it doesn't make for an overly interesting league.

 

I wanted to break this cycle, so I became a GM to show that it's possible to do that. I've always tried to compete. At least within reason, I don't want to throw any active members to the wolves in a playoff fight they can't win. But for the most part, I've made an effort to retain all/most my draft picks, and compete every season, even if I don't win the Cup. And I think I've done reasonably well with that, I think I only missed playoffs/unwillingly entered playoffs maybe once or twice since I've started GMing. And while I never always had the best teams, I think we were usually at least good enough to make it interesting for my players. I've basically tried to have a balanced team that I think would be appropriate and possible for 3-6 other teams in the league to have simultaneously.

 

Hence why I always wanted a salary cap, to force GMs to share the wealth, and to prevent GMs from COMPLETELY unloading. The VHL has a better balance with fewer players and more teams because there's only so much a GM can do. Half the league can't literally trade every player they own because there's a cap floor. And even if they could, the other half of the league can't hoard every active member in the league because there's a cap ceiling. The VHLM could be more or less the same way.

 

Instead, there's only Band-Aid solutions. To prevent teams from owning every draft pick in a season, there's a direct restriction on how many draft picks a team can hold. To prevent there from being teams with no players on them, teams are just removed outright. I was okay with the reduction to eight teams, because the expansion to 10 was iffy in the first place. I also thought reducing to seven teams was a fair landing pad, as I thought it would indeed help parity a bit. But I was never in favour of dropping it to five teams. Under the current structure, the cycle of "trading all the players one season, then trading all the draft picks the next", is never going to stop. The only difference is that with fewer teams, there's an actual possibility of one team buying out the rest of the league, as we might be seeing this season (though admittedly this might partially be because of the way Brampton's former players may or may not be distributed, and due to the legacy of the way a 7 team league worked). At least with 7+ teams if one team bought out 4 others, there was still 2 other teams that could maybe compete.

 

And now, I have to decide whether I want to sell my future and put up a now long-shot fight against one team to try and win now, and lose later, or if I should salvage my poor active members' seasons and deliberately lose this season. Which you might recognize is the exact opposite of my GMing goals. And considering Oslo, Yukon, and Saskatoon might all be faced with the same choice, there might not even be a market for either. Meaning that this VHLM season has the potential to be the biggest joke of a VHLM season ever, which is saying quite a bit.

 

Anyway, this got WAY longer than I anticipated/wanted, so I'll just stop thinking of things and writing them down now.

 

TL;DR: Anderson being a dick has made me realize that this first season of the five team VHLM is shaping up to be a failure because it's either going to force the SELL-BUY cycle that causes 1-2 playerless teams (something the reduction was specifically trying to eliminate), or it will be a one-team show, which is somehow worse. Also I'm right about everything but am too lazy to have any conviction.

[Jericho 917]

Been too long since the classic Jardy post!

 

I largely agree, and this was the main reason I wanted to ditch the VHLM all together and made a 3 piece magstory about how and why it was a good idea. We're basically heading that way as is.

[Gudnason 607]

At work now will take time to read and reply and voice my opinions in the next hour or two. @JardyB10 I really do sincerely apologize if I fucked you over and never gave you a chance to explain or answer, as I didn't know you are busy at work because from my POV you didn't respond and have been inactive as of late.

[Bushito 1,945]

I agree with what you are saying here. I already voiced my opinions on some things that should change but I think at this point we need to give it a couple years with this seasons changes to truly see how it works. The main fuck up was letting the folded teams players choose where they play, there definitely should have been a separate draft for those players with one team getting a player each. I should have never traded Robbies player to his team #RAGRETS

[frescoelmo 1,218]

51 minutes ago, JardyB10 said:

~*WARNING: This post got really long, and often disjointed, and I'm sorry. There's a much more concise TL;DR at the bottom.*~

 

Today was a pretty big shit pill for me to swallow as a VHLM GM.

 

As you may or may not have noticed, Anderson retired his goalie and re-created essentially just to maximize his chances to win a Founder's Cup this season. This was quite unfortunate for my Ottawa Lynx, as he was my first round draft pick, and I had him pegged to start this season and next, with him being ~2nd best goalie (and best active goalie) in the league by playoffs this season, and the best goalie across the board by next season. It would have been two solid competing seasons. I had a full plan for competing this season, but he never gave me a chance to share it, or even to communicate at all. Even if he didn't like the direction of the team, we maybe could have worked something out, whether it was a trade or me using my Rigging powers to turn him back into a forward or something. And if not, then he could have retired, and at least I tried. But I never got that chance, so that's particularly frustrating.

 

While I am upset with Anderson and would like nothing more than for this to somehow blow up in his face, this isn't meant to be a "Fuck that guy" thread, or a classic angry Jardy rant. Unforeseen shit screws over GMs all the time. And to be fair, with me working a new job, I haven't had a lot of time for the league the past three weeks, so I haven't been as on the ball as I could have. I meant to share my plans for the team in the LR last night yet, but by the time I showered and ate a very late supper, I couldn't keep my eyes open. Maybe if I scouted more before the draft instead of kind of winging it I may have found it would have been smarter to pick another skater up at 7th overall. Who knows.

 

But I digress, what this thread is really about is the VHLM as a whole.

 

The reason I became a VHLM GM in the first place was because I wanted to try to help it. I don't have the time anymore to take over as Jr. Commish and overhaul as I see fit though, so I tried to do it in my own way. People often talk about the VHLM being shitty and needing to change this and that to improve it. The consensus on the VHLM is that the goal, as a GM, isn't necessarily just to win, but to foster activity and create good vibes so that new members can get a positive introduction to the league and be integrated into the community.

 

And I agree with all of that to an extent. The VHLM did/does indeed to change this and that; I've always personally advocated a complete overhaul of the VHLM that includes a salary cap. And I do agree that the VHLM is a developmental league first, winning second.

 

However, I think being very competitive and winning is a big part of that positive experience for members, especially new ones. And you have a better chance of winning with veteran members and high TPE inactives. So my goal as a GM is to find a good a blend as I can with the restrictions of acquirable players in place. I obviously don't want exclusively veteran members and inactives just to rape the league, because then I'm essentially just spinning my wheels as far as the ultimate goal of being a VHLM GM is concerned.

 

And I think part of what spoils the VHLM is the ridiculous cyclical nature of it. The turnover of each team in the VHLM season to season is horrific. When I still simulated the VHLM, off-seasons were by far the worst time of my real life, as moving every single player in the league around (especially when you're less familiar with who they are and who they used to and currently belong to) is a tedious nightmare. But besides being shitty for Higgins, it's just shitty in general. How ridiculous is it that, in a (then) 8 team league, two teams have maximum legal rosters (which is ~20 players), while two have 0-2 players? The fact that teams are even allowed that many players is absurd on its own. In the VHL, our main parent league, it's uncommon for teams to carry much more than two lines worth of players (10 skaters). Obviously the minor league is going to be different/higher, as not ever created player makes the VHL, but to double it is fucking excessive. What ice time is an active player going to enjoy with four full lines of players? And if you aren't playing a line or two of players, why must they be on your roster at all? Of course, this happens because GMs like to completely unload all their players in a rebuild and get ALL the draft picks, and winning teams will do the opposite. Add to the mix that an inexplicable 6/8 teams make the playoffs, and it doesn't make for an overly interesting league.

 

I wanted to break this cycle, so I became a GM to show that it's possible to do that. I've always tried to compete. At least within reason, I don't want to throw any active members to the wolves in a playoff fight they can't win. But for the most part, I've made an effort to retain all/most my draft picks, and compete every season, even if I don't win the Cup. And I think I've done reasonably well with that, I think I only missed playoffs/unwillingly entered playoffs maybe once or twice since I've started GMing. And while I never always had the best teams, I think we were usually at least good enough to make it interesting for my players. I've basically tried to have a balanced team that I think would be appropriate and possible for 3-6 other teams in the league to have simultaneously.

 

Hence why I always wanted a salary cap, to force GMs to share the wealth, and to prevent GMs from COMPLETELY unloading. The VHL has a better balance with fewer players and more teams because there's only so much a GM can do. Half the league can't literally trade every player they own because there's a cap floor. And even if they could, the other half of the league can't hoard every active member in the league because there's a cap ceiling. The VHLM could be more or less the same way.

 

Instead, there's only Band-Aid solutions. To prevent teams from owning every draft pick in a season, there's a direct restriction on how many draft picks a team can hold. To prevent there from being teams with no players on them, teams are just removed outright. I was okay with the reduction to eight teams, because the expansion to 10 was iffy in the first place. I also thought reducing to seven teams was a fair landing pad, as I thought it would indeed help parity a bit. But I was never in favour of dropping it to five teams. Under the current structure, the cycle of "trading all the players one season, then trading all the draft picks the next", is never going to stop. The only difference is that with fewer teams, there's an actual possibility of one team buying out the rest of the league, as we might be seeing this season (though admittedly this might partially be because of the way Brampton's former players may or may not be distributed, and due to the legacy of the way a 7 team league worked). At least with 7+ teams if one team bought out 4 others, there was still 2 other teams that could maybe compete.

 

And now, I have to decide whether I want to sell my future and put up a now long-shot fight against one team to try and win now, and lose later, or if I should salvage my poor active members' seasons and deliberately lose this season. Which you might recognize is the exact opposite of my GMing goals. And considering Oslo, Yukon, and Saskatoon might all be faced with the same choice, there might not even be a market for either. Meaning that this VHLM season has the potential to be the biggest joke of a VHLM season ever, which is saying quite a bit.

 

Anyway, this got WAY longer than I anticipated/wanted, so I'll just stop thinking of things and writing them down now.

 

TL;DR: Anderson being a dick has made me realize that this first season of the five team VHLM is shaping up to be a failure because it's either going to force the SELL-BUY cycle that causes 1-2 playerless teams (something the reduction was specifically trying to eliminate), or it will be a one-team show, which is somehow worse. Also I'm right about everything but am too lazy to have any conviction.

 

Don't worry I have a history of playing for CPU-driven teams

[BluObieZ 1,125]

While I agree with everything you said Jardy, I think the hype and the amazing show that my Aces put up this season may save this season where it seems only I will contend. I would love to see at least another team get a few guys to make it a bit interesting I cannot force players to pick other teams over me. If I see someone I want I will not sit back and let someone else get that player. I need to think about my team this season and beyond. I do not agree with what Anderson did, but he is known for it. I'd love to battle it out with Ottawa in the final or Oslo. But right now it looks like it will be a battle to see who can be worse and to see who gets slaughtered in the finals

[BluObieZ 1,125]

8 minutes ago, Bushitroll said:

I agree with what you are saying here. I already voiced my opinions on some things that should change but I think at this point we need to give it a couple years with this seasons changes to truly see how it works. The main fuck up was letting the folded teams players choose where they play, there definitely should have been a separate draft for those players with one team getting a player each. I should have never traded Robbies player to his team #RAGRETS

To be fair with you, you didn't know how good my team would be. Because if you kept Axelberry you would have a legit shot at beating me because I would be stuck with Gotze

[BluObieZ 1,125]

Side note: I do have a surplus block of players that can help.

[Bushito 1,945]

3 minutes ago, BobertZ said:

To be fair with you, you didn't know how good my team would be. Because if you kept Axelberry you would have a legit shot at beating me because I would be stuck with Gotze

To be fair I would have had far more than a legit shot at beating you, I would have slaughtered your team and got all the UFAs your snagging because I'd have the only legit goalie. My thought was if I didn't trade you though you would just go play in the VHLM and also I was gearing more towards competin g next season when I can create my second player and stock up with 2 top 5 picks. I would love to see at least 2 teams compete this season but that won't happen because nobody is going to give up assets to come in second. My biggest problem come not from anything I know is a fact but more a feeling I have that you planted this idea in andersons head to retire and recreate. My big plan was to give all of my star players to Ottawa at the deadline for a first if he went for it and have you two go head to head but that is no longer going to happen.

[scoop 3,254]

6 minutes ago, BobertZ said:

While I agree with everything you said Jardy, I think the hype and the amazing show that my Aces put up this season may save this season where it seems only I will contend. I would love to see at least another team get a few guys to make it a bit interesting I cannot force players to pick other teams over me. If I see someone I want I will not sit back and let someone else get that player. I need to think about my team this season and beyond. I do not agree with what Anderson did, but he is known for it. I'd love to battle it out with Ottawa in the final or Oslo. But right now it looks like it will be a battle to see who can be worse and to see who gets slaughtered in the finals

And who is that fun for if the rest of us are fighting to be second best or not the worst? Who other than your team would enjoy that? 

[Bushito 1,945]

7 minutes ago, BobertZ said:

Side note: I do have a surplus block of players that can help.

You can take that block and shove it up your Ace, nobody is going to trade you assets for your scrubs to come in second to you. Keep dreaming bud.

[hedgehog337 3,480]

No Bratislava no fun

 

38 minutes ago, Jericho said:

ditch the VHLM all together

 

ture story

[Devise 4,475]

16 minutes ago, frescoelmo said:

TL;DR: Anderson being a dick has made me realize that this first season of the five team VHLM is shaping up to be a failure because it's either going to force the SELL-BUY cycle that causes 1-2 playerless teams (something the reduction was specifically trying to eliminate), or it will be a one-team show, which is somehow worse. Also I'm right about everything but am too lazy to have any conviction.

 

This is what I thought would happen as we shrunk teams. People think it somehow increases parity, but I'll argue more often than not it'll be a 2 team show. Sure it can be that way sometimes in the VHL too, a 2-4 team show with the other playoff teams being noncompetitive, but players don't get called up from the VHL. Franchises that make good moves while they rebuild have the possibility to compete for multiple seasons in a row. New York won a cup a year removed from winning 1st overall. Stockholm just made the finals a year after rebuild. Look at Helsinki. Quebec is on the rise. The format of the VHL allows franchises to more readily work through their issues, and I think the fact that the only way to make the VHLM "fun" is to keep reducing team numbers should be a sign that the league simply isn't structured to work.

 

I will keep advocating for this, but we need to just create two new VHL teams and merge the two leagues together. Obviously come up with some sort of a waiver system, and increase the amount of TPE we give first gens and increase carry over numbers to match. But it just makes no sense to put people through a junior experience. Plus with all the talk of adding a couple seasons to career lengths, as well as the potential to speed up both the regular season and playoffs I think all these things combine for an overall better user experience for newer members than what the VHLM offers. 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Devise

[Baozi 1,635]

Hey i tried to break the cycle too, didn't tank for the playoff runs and kept a playoff streak going while I was gming

[BluObieZ 1,125]

2 minutes ago, Bushitroll said:

To be fair I would have had far more than a legit shot at beating you, I would have slaughtered your team and got all the UFAs your snagging because I'd have the only legit goalie. My thought was if I didn't trade you though you would just go play in the VHLM and also I was gearing more towards competin g next season when I can create my second player and stock up with 2 top 5 picks. I would love to see at least 2 teams compete this season but that won't happen because nobody is going to give up assets to come in second. My biggest problem come not from anything I know is a fact but more a feeling I have that you planted this idea in andersons head to retire and recreate. My big plan was to give all of my star players to Ottawa at the deadline for a first if he went for it and have you two go head to head but that is no longer going to happen.

I did not plant anything in his mind. I in fact told him not to retire because that would fuck Jardy. I have the messages to prove this. Also I do not think you would have slaughtered me, but you would have put up a god damn good fight

[Gudnason 607]

7 minutes ago, Bushitroll said:

To be fair I would have had far more than a legit shot at beating you, I would have slaughtered your team and got all the UFAs your snagging because I'd have the only legit goalie. My thought was if I didn't trade you though you would just go play in the VHLM and also I was gearing more towards competin g next season when I can create my second player and stock up with 2 top 5 picks. I would love to see at least 2 teams compete this season but that won't happen because nobody is going to give up assets to come in second. My biggest problem come not from anything I know is a fact but more a feeling I have that you planted this idea in andersons head to retire and recreate. My big plan was to give all of my star players to Ottawa at the deadline for a first if he went for it and have you two go head to head but that is no longer going to happen.

False. Don't blame him. It was my sole intent to retire/recreate to join Vegas and win.

[Bushito 1,945]

4 minutes ago, Devise said:

 

This is what I thought would happen as we shrunk teams. People think it somehow increases parity, but I'll argue more often than not it'll be a 2 team show. Sure it can be that way sometimes in the VHL too, a 2-4 team show with the other playoff teams being noncompetitive, but players don't get called up from the VHL. Franchises that make good moves while they rebuild have the possibility to compete for multiple seasons in a row. New York won a cup a year removed from winning 1st overall. Stockholm just made the finals a year after rebuild. Look at Helsinki. Quebec is on the rise. The format of the VHL allows franchises to more readily work through their issues, and I think the fact that the only way to make the VHLM "fun" is to keep reducing team numbers should be a sign that the league simply isn't structured to work.

 

I will keep advocating for this, but we need to just create two new VHL teams and merge the two leagues together. Obviously come up with some sort of a waiver system, and increase the amount of TPE we give first gens and increase carry over numbers to match. But it just makes no sense to put people through a junior experience. Plus with all the talk of adding a couple seasons to career lengths, as well as the potential to speed up both the regular season and playoffs I think all these things combine for an overall better user experience for newer members than what the VHLM offers. 

Fuck to the Yeah

[Bushito 1,945]

2 minutes ago, punkhippie said:

False. Don't blame him. It was my sole intent to retire/recreate to join Vegas and win.

That's why I said I had a feeling but no actual proof, I literally don't know but the timing and the way talk was going down definitely made it look that way.

[BluObieZ 1,125]

1 minute ago, Bushitroll said:

That's why I said I had a feeling but no actual proof, I literally don't know but the timing and the way talk was going down definitely made it look that way.

Yet again I point out that I have messages between me and him. Him telling me he is retiring to come join me. I told him not to do it because that would fuck Jardy. I told him it was his choice ultimately but I rather him not retire and fuck Jardy over. I really wanted a Ottawa/Vegas final. Would have been great to beat the defending champs

[Gudnason 607]

I will get on my computer after work in two hours and post everything from my side/point of view. I will also offer any alternatives and fixes I can possibly do to address everything that I have caused or lead to issues that are more highlighted because of my actions.

[Bushito 1,945]

Just now, BobertZ said:

Yet again I point out that I have messages between me and him. Him telling me he is retiring to come join me. I told him not to do it because that would fuck Jardy. I told him it was his choice ultimately but I rather him not retire and fuck Jardy over. I really wanted a Ottawa/Vegas final. Would have been great to beat the defending champs

You still will likely so you have that.

[BluObieZ 1,125]

1 minute ago, Bushitroll said:

You still will likely so you have that.

Eh you have some good players. It's between you and Ottawa. Plus I will soon max out on players so you guys will get players that are created between now and the deadline

[Da Trifecta 1,896]

Allow all VHLM teams to have cpu goalies with 50's across the board. It at least gives some hope and could remedy these situations tbh

[Devise 4,475]

45 minutes ago, Da Trollfecta said:

Allow all VHLM teams to have cpu goalies with 50's across the board. It at least gives some hope and could remedy these situations tbh

 

So our solution to VHLM not having enough goalies is to give them good CPU's and our solution to the VHL having too many human goalies is to give salary cap relief? 

[Da Trifecta 1,896]

1 hour ago, Devise said:

 

So our solution to VHLM not having enough goalies is to give them good CPU's and our solution to the VHL having too many human goalies is to give salary cap relief? 

 

Actually them at 50's would be decent. Still can be giving up a lot of scores there as well.