Game of Thrones

[Tyler 881]

The fact that only Thoros died of any relevant characters up north is highkey bull shit tho. At least 3 of the 7 should have died.

[Beaviss 4,949]

The last episode corrections:

 

More people die north of the wall.

Give more time for crow to fly dragons to get there etc.

Jon Snow didn't have to fall into water and get saved by benjen.(I know it was to build a romance scene)

Where the fuck did those chains come from....

 

[Devise 4,475]

17 hours ago, BOOM said:

I liked that the walkers stopped at Walmart to pick up some bigass shipyard chains just in case they had to haul some shit out of the ice. Must be some boy scout " be prepared " kind of thing.

 

Haha Walmart would never sell an item that useful. Home Depot on the other hand? 

[BOOM 8,401]

Spoiler

Oh hey great plan, gang! Remember when you thought you were just going to pop over to where the White Walkers' Army of Steve Bannon Lookalikes has been marching for the last two years, pick up a Steve Bannon Lookalike, stop at Wendy's, then cruise south to King's Landing with Gendry's playlist on the aux cord? Idiots! You fucked it up. Like immediately. You got a dragon killed. And it's exactly this type of questionable decision-making (and writing) that has plagued Game of Thrones this entire season.

 

This is not the same Thrones that fans adored through its first five seasons—a show with close attention to detail and lovingly crafted characters and plotlines. While things began to crack last season—its first without the guiding light of George R.R. Martin's books—it has become clear that the writers don't know how to complete the author's vision.

Let's consider the deus ex machina inception that was Episode Six. The set-up is the random, incomprehensible plan to go capture a wight to bring to Cersei as proof of the Army of the Dead's existence. Okay, as we've established, that was a bad plan. And as you'd expect, Jon and his squad immediately get overrun by wights. So he commands Gendry, the Usain Bolt of Westeros, to run all the way back to Castle Black and send a raven to Daenerys. So, while Jon and his group are fighting and freezing on a hill, somehow Gendry gets back to Eastwatch then sends a raven that's more efficient than a fucking text message, which lets Daenerys and her dragons teleport up north to save the day.

A lot has been written about timeline problems on Game of Thrones, but none of them have been worse than this episode. You can't write off the time that both the raven and Daenerys traveled, when you have the clock ticking on a group of men freezing in the middle of a lake. Those things need to happen in parallel time, because the viewer is invested in the ticking-clock plight of the characters. No one is going to believe they were just chilling on that rock for two weeks shooting the shit without food or water and taunting the Army of the Dead. This simply feels like a write-around excuse to get Dany and her dragons up north. I would imagine that, in his road map to the conclusion of this saga, Martin had one big plot point labeled "The Dragon Dies And Becomes a Zombie White Walker Dragon." Except, the writers, who had stranded everyone down south, needed a way to make this plot point happen in only seven episodes. They simply abandoned all logic, and cut corners to get Dany and her dragons up there. It feels hobbled together like some sort of lazy fan fiction, complete with the feel good moments and nonsensical characterization. So, in the end, one of the dragons died—hit with some sort of doomsday White Walker lance. We don't technically know which one died, but I'd wager it was the worst of the three dragons. (I've read online it was the one named after Viserys, who was her shithead brother, so that's cool.)

And this was a necessary death, because now we know the real White Walker threat. It's also a symbolic death. Dragons are vulnerable. Like the cutting down of Ned in Season One, now we know that no man, woman or beast is safe on Game of Thrones. But, it's also a twist that fans have been speculating about for years.

Unfortunately, even after they had killed the dragon, the writers still had Jon Snow stuck north of the Wall alone after sacrificing himself. So, what do they do? Here's how I imagine the conversation in the writer's room went:

Writer 1: What if Uncle Benjen just shows up again to save Jon?

Writer 2: Oh, yeah I guess that would work—is he still alive? I can't remember.

Writer 1: Who cares. So, he rides up and saves Jon, but what do we do with Benjen after that?

Writer 2: Well, we could just have Benjen die right there and not worry about it?

Writer 1: Good call, but we'll leave it kind of ambiguous in case we need him for a cheat again.

So, everyone lives except for Thoros, which is only really a bummer for Beric Dondarrion who is now on his last life, and Jon makes it back and he ends up on a boat with Dany, where they have a tender, mildly sexual moment and he says he'll bend the knee to her. But this is also a mildly aggravating scene, because it makes no sense why these characters would be hesitant to hook up. This show has already established that Dany—and everyone else in Westeros—is fine with marriages for political means. And there's no better political marriage than Dany and Jon right now.

 

Plus, they're two young, attractive, powerful people with nothing stopping them. The only thing stopping them is that the writers know they're actually related, so they've trapped themselves in this cringeworthy gray area that's neither interesting nor pleasant to watch. Let them just go at it and have them find out they're aunt and nephew later. Or don't. Just no more of this middle school I think ur cute but ur 2 short stuff.

There were a few hiking conversations in the first 20 minutes which really didn't go anywhere and mostly worked as filler (seriously, Gendry brings up that these dudes betrayed him and left him to die and their only response is suck it up?). Although it was totally fan service, it was mildly fun to see Tormund tell The Hound he wants to make babies with Brienne. And we got to see the fire swords in action, which mostly were used for some first aid, turning an undead bear into a flaming undead bear, and as a grill lighter to burn Thoros's body.

But, with the important stuff out of the way, let's touch on another plot line that is in total disarray. The Stark sisters are at each other's throats. It all has to do with the letter that Littlefinger planted for Arya to find. What's clear is that Littlefinger is orchestrating this to weaken the Starks and take power on his own. But what makes absolutely no sense is how the Stark sisters are acting. Sansa has proven herself a wise leader. And Arya has traveled the world and become a master assassin. Yet, somehow they're both too stupid and petty to work through what's pretty clearly going on?

All Arya needed to do would say she found the note in Littlefinger's room, which would make it clear that he's behind all of this. Even with that as an option, why is Arya suddenly unhinged, threatening her sister for something as minor as writing a note while being held captive by Cersei? This entire trivial feud seems beneath the growth of both of these characters. We're supposed to believe that they've matured during this series, but the writers completely do away with that for some paltry feud? It's possible there's another layer to this plot that is yet to be revealed, but at the moment it seems like a disservice to two wonderful characters.

As frustrating as it was, this episode of Game of Thrones did deliver in excitement. While it was short on details and thought, it did provide an hour of stunning battle. And, at this point, the writers can do whatever the hell they want, as long as there's some dragon action in the end. With one episode remaining in this season, team Jon-Dany has traded one dragon for one wight, and their next stop is King's Landing.

 

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

5 hours ago, Beaviss said:

The last episode corrections:

 

More people die north of the wall.

Give more time for crow to fly dragons to get there etc.

Jon Snow didn't have to fall into water and get saved by benjen.(I know it was to build a romance scene)

Where the fuck did those chains come from....

 

That Benjen thing is bullshit. It's been a big deal from Season 1 that Benjen left Jon at the wall and he hasn't seen him since. Benjen told Jon he has things to tell him when he gets back, and all the excitement is there. The audience gets to see Benjen help Bran get to where he needs to go, and that he has become Cold Hands from the book.

 

But nah, he sees Jon for like 5 seconds, says there's no time, and off Jon goes. No closure of any sort, basically just killing yet another storyline. But I suppose this is Game of Thrones, and you don't always get what you want.

 

I guess that horse Jon was on was also tired as fuck once it got to the wall, and who knows if it could have ran fast enough with both Benjen and Jon on it before it got caught by wights. Although, Jon wasn't in any condition to actually tell the horse any commands, so it might have just galloped there on its own once it ran away from the wights.

 

Makes me wonder if in the finale we'll be able to see Jon get to learn who he is from Bran, or maybe Sam who's on his way to wherever. All we really see in the teasers is that the meeting takes place at King's Landing, I think.

 

 

All this weird-ass drama happening just seems to be the writers creating storylines for no reason. Like Arya and Sansa's conversations, rather than just saying "Hey, I found this letter, Sansa. Why'd you write it?" Sansa's response saying she was forced to makes sense. Then Arya says, oh, I'd die before I served the Lannisters, even if I was young.....BUT she DID serve Tywin Lannister when she was young, so wtf is up with that? .....and Arya talking to Sansa like she did nothing about her father's death as it was happening, even though Sansa was screaming for them to stop, and Arya saw that. Come on.

 

Why did Dany not get one of her dragons to target the White Walkers who were clearly in charge on the hill? She had 3 dragons there, but you only really saw 2 of them, Drogon and Viserion in action. Where the fuck was Rhaegal?

 

I don't know, fuck it. Still a great show.

[Beaviss 4,949]

19 minutes ago, DollarAndADream said:

That Benjen thing is bullshit. It's been a big deal from Season 1 that Benjen left Jon at the wall and he hasn't seen him since. Benjen told Jon he has things to tell him when he gets back, and all the excitement is there. The audience gets to see Benjen help Bran get to where he needs to go, and that he has become Cold Hands from the book.

 

But nah, he sees Jon for like 5 seconds, says there's no time, and off Jon goes. No closure of any sort, basically just killing yet another storyline. But I suppose this is Game of Thrones, and you don't always get what you want.

 

I guess that horse Jon was on was also tired as fuck once it got to the wall, and who knows if it could have ran fast enough with both Benjen and Jon on it before it got caught by wights. Although, Jon wasn't in any condition to actually tell the horse any commands, so it might have just galloped there on its own once it ran away from the wights.

 

Makes me wonder if in the finale we'll be able to see Jon get to learn who he is from Bran, or maybe Sam who's on his way to wherever. All we really see in the teasers is that the meeting takes place at King's Landing, I think.

 

 

All this weird-ass drama happening just seems to be the writers creating storylines for no reason. Like Arya and Sansa's conversations, rather than just saying "Hey, I found this letter, Sansa. Why'd you write it?" Sansa's response saying she was forced to makes sense. Then Arya says, oh, I'd die before I served the Lannisters, even if I was young.....BUT she DID serve Tywin Lannister when she was young, so wtf is up with that? .....and Arya talking to Sansa like she did nothing about her father's death as it was happening, even though Sansa was screaming for them to stop, and Arya saw that. Come on.

 

Why did Dany not get one of her dragons to target the White Walkers who were clearly in charge on the hill? She had 3 dragons there, but you only really saw 2 of them, Drogon and Viserion in action. Where the fuck was Rhaegal?

 

I don't know, fuck it. Still a great show.

 

The story is too in depth for there to never be plot holes but this season is blowing those holes wide open 

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

4 minutes ago, Beaviss said:

 

The story is too in depth for there to never be plot holes but this season is blowing those holes wide open 

I mean, the Arya part is probably just Arya lying to Sansa's face, maybe hoping Littlefinger is listening.

[Beaviss 4,949]

8 hours ago, DollarAndADream said:

I mean, the Arya part is probably just Arya lying to Sansa's face, maybe hoping Littlefinger is listening.

 

Well if you read the plot leaks you would know like I do!

[DollarAndADream 3,356]

3 hours ago, Beaviss said:

 

Well if you read the plot leaks you would know like I do!

Ah, now I see.

 

I read them now.

[Beaviss 4,949]

12 minutes ago, DollarAndADream said:

Ah, now I see.

 

I read them now.

 

If you read the plot leaks it's still very intense because your comparing it to see if it's right 

[Tyler 881]

20 hours ago, Beaviss said:

The last episode corrections:

 

More people die north of the wall.

Give more time for crow to fly dragons to get there etc.

Jon Snow didn't have to fall into water and get saved by benjen.(I know it was to build a romance scene)

Where the fuck did those chains come from....

 

 

also the whole arya/sansa storyline is dumb no matter how it ends up

 

-if they unite and kill LF it was such an obvious bait and switch idk how littlefinger could fall for it

-if they go after each other it's really dumb tho I think defendable because LF is smarter than both of them

 

idk it feels like a lot of the storylines suck ass lately and make no sense

[Tyler 881]

14 hours ago, DollarAndADream said:

I mean, the Arya part is probably just Arya lying to Sansa's face, maybe hoping Littlefinger is listening.

 

it most likely is this but LF should be smart enough to know this but they're probably going to have him be dumb (like they're doing with Tyrion lately) just to tie up loose ends and advance the plot.

[Kyle 667]

The characters arcs are done and now it's time for action. Can't be plot building and politics forever, that's what I loved about Thrones as well but the whole series has been building to fully grown dragons + white walkers finally attacking. I've finally accepted this and just don't give a shit about the little things anymore like how long it would take the ice to freeze and how fast Dany would take to get there. No point in getting upset about it.

 

However, the last second saving of asses is getting ridiculous. Why can't they have them battle the WWs, find a way to crack the ice to save their skin, wait it out like they did and then have Dany come in and attack. Makes it less cheesy and gimmicky and we still get the same balance of everything. 

 

I still think going 7 episodes was a really bad idea. If they went 10 there's a lot more room to breathe, but at the same time if the writing was as "meh" as it is maybe it wouldn't have really improved anything. 

Edited August 22, 2017 by Kyle

[Beaviss 4,949]

39 minutes ago, Tyler said:

 

also the whole arya/sansa storyline is dumb no matter how it ends up

 

-if they unite and kill LF it was such an obvious bait and switch idk how littlefinger could fall for it

-if they go after each other it's really dumb tho I think defendable because LF is smarter than both of them

 

idk it feels like a lot of the storylines suck ass lately and make no sense

 

Ever since Martin lost control of it that's when it started to go down hill story wise 

[Devise 4,475]

1 hour ago, Beaviss said:

Martin lost control

 

Martin didn't "lose" control though. He simply takes too long to write and finish books. The end game that Martin was building too aka Dragons vs Zombies will still happen in the books. Your crazy if you think otherwise. Does that mean that it'll happen the exact same way? No of course not, but Martin didn't lose control of anything. He really only helped them write the odd episode early on, and has said to been completely fine with the show going it's own direction but still finalizing itself on the same end game. We are at that end game, and the show doesn't have the budget nor the episode count to be making every loose plot hole and character arc make sense. 

 

I find it interesting how the same people complaining that certain characters don't get good loose ends tied/good resolution had no problem that Rob died, or Ned. Lots of character arcs from the early seasons were just as shit, or more appropriately short and made very little sense. Why did it take Ned so long to discover the truth? Why did he then use his honor to get himself killed? What about Oberyn? Why did he taunt his opponent so much and get himself killed, pretty stupid decision, he seems smarter than that. 

 

The truth is the why's are all irrelevant. They have always been. It's a tv show, not a book. While Seasons 1-4 are a bit more faithful adaptations, really things started to change pretty early on. I could bring up Stannis too another character whose arc just sort of ended shittily. The show and to a lesser extent the books have done that stuff all the time. The only reason people hate it now is because it's happening to the characters they like, ala Littlefinger, Tyrion, etc. And the characters they hate, ala Jon and Dany are being saved by tropes. But here is some crazy news? They have been saved from tropes from the beginning. Dany walks into the fire and her dragons are born, how much false tension was put on her and Jon since day one of this show? TONS. It's not new, it's not fresh, it's not some new twist where suddenly the plot armor characters are loaded with tropes. That has been the story since day one of the show and the books. Welcome to tropesville. 

 

As @Kyle has kind of echoed here, you guys have to learn to get over it or watch a different show imo. I hate how "Lord of the Rings" get used as an insult because something can't be good of it's predictable or filled with tropes. Like "random murder for the sake of shock" in and of itself isn't a trope either. You know how many shows I watch that has the type of shit you calls call unpredictable? Tons. Tropes are tropes are tropes, whether they are high fantasy, murder mystery, political intrigue. "But but in the past smart characters never relied on tropes." They didn't?

 

How about when Tywin showed up last minute to save Kings Landing? How about when Rob ambushed the Lannisters out of nowhere? How about...the list goes on and on people. The types of shit you are seeing, the last second save of the days have been happening since the earliest Seasons. Has some dark shit happened and in the end a lot of characters bitten the dust? Yes. But Jon Snow and Dany are not yet at the point where they are meant to bite the dust. Derp, that isn't unobvious. I think the "false tension" they attempt to create with some of the scenes is kind of bullshit but it's been bullshit from day one. The only reason we didn't really care or notice is because enough dark shit happened to make people think "anything can happen." Of course anything can't happen. What did you think they were going to kill off all the main characters and have nobody with plot armor so that in the final season once we built to end game there would be nobody left and we'd have to spend time getting re-introduced to new characters? 

 

All media is filled with tropes. All stories ALL OF THEM, go back and look do some googling are unoriginal since like back to a long ass time ago. There was a study done on how many villains in modern media in general are reflections of a bunch of old plays and poems from like hundreds of years ago. You can trace all this shit back to something in most cases, which means putting so much emphasis on something to "shock you" seems so crazy to me. Why does that matter? Or more importantly, why does it always have to matter? Without it it's meaningless. Just sounds like hipster talk to me. You got 5-6 seasons of strong character build and some of the best slow scenes you were going to get. Even in Breaking Bad's final season we weren't getting the slow scenes like we had in Season 1. This isn't some new concept or insulting one either, taking the characters the show spent seasons building up and engaging them in a all stakes against the wall type of end scenario. 

 

Again that doesn't have to be for anyone, but just stop watching. There is no sin in that. But don't kid yourself from recognizing the game of thrones we see now isn't an insult the previous seasons of the show. It's very much not only in line with what they have been building, but using concepts and tropes they have leveraged from day one of the show imo. 

Edited August 22, 2017 by Devise

[Beaviss 4,949]

@Devise wasn't hating on the show I love it I just think The show is better at adapting from a book to a show then the other way around 

[TurnDaddy 323]

What irks me now is If Bran knows what's up with LF "chaos is a ladder", where the fuck is he when LF is now setting up chaos at Winterfell between his sisters, the lords and Jon? Is he so caught up in the Three-Eyed Raven thing, that he can't, just for a split second, use his "power" and help his sisters see LFs shit? Is he just going to chill in that bedroom until all hell breaks loose? 

 

 

Also, Aunty and Nephew hookup incoming.... Not quite the sister/brother Targaryen way, but it'll do. Collision path. The big question now is, will they all find out before they do the deed, or after? 

[Beaviss 4,949]

5 minutes ago, Jonessee27 said:

What irks me now is If Bran knows what's up with LF "chaos is a ladder", where the fuck is he when LF is now setting up chaos at Winterfell between his sisters, the lords and Jon? Is he so caught up in the Three-Eyed Raven thing, that he can't, just for a split second, use his "power" and help his sisters see LFs shit? Is he just going to chill in that bedroom until all hell breaks loose? 

 

 

Also, Aunty and Nephew hookup incoming.... Not quite the sister/brother Targaryen way, but it'll do. Collision path. The big question now is, will they all find out before they do the deed, or after? 

 

Off topic you should change your name to the Onion Knight

[Devise 4,475]

22 minutes ago, Jonessee27 said:

What irks me now is If Bran knows what's up with LF "chaos is a ladder", where the fuck is he when LF is now setting up chaos at Winterfell between his sisters, the lords and Jon? Is he so caught up in the Three-Eyed Raven thing, that he can't, just for a split second, use his "power" and help his sisters see LFs shit? Is he just going to chill in that bedroom until all hell breaks loose? 

 

 

I read some theory the other day about how the Hodor moment was Bran recognizing there are serious consequences to his power when he isn't just using his power to warg into a traditional animal. It then went on to suggest that perhaps Bran only has one "shot" to do whatever it is he's supposed to do. And since he can see the results of how things happen and can pretty much look through time, that potentially he is allowing events to unfold specific ways in order to set the stage and put the important players in the exact spot they need to be for him to do whatever it is he has to do. 

 

Which I think certainly fits in line with his, I only tell people about visions when it seems convenient for me sort of thing. And yet most of the time his visions lead to people being put into the plot armor type situations. 

[TurnDaddy 323]

41 minutes ago, Devise said:

 

I read some theory the other day about how the Hodor moment was Bran recognizing there are serious consequences to his power when he isn't just using his power to warg into a traditional animal. It then went on to suggest that perhaps Bran only has one "shot" to do whatever it is he's supposed to do. And since he can see the results of how things happen and can pretty much look through time, that potentially he is allowing events to unfold specific ways in order to set the stage and put the important players in the exact spot they need to be for him to do whatever it is he has to do. 

 

Which I think certainly fits in line with his, I only tell people about visions when it seems convenient for me sort of thing. And yet most of the time his visions lead to people being put into the plot armor type situations. 

Interesting. I can see that then. 

 

 

 

 

And @BOOM, I read something earlier today that someone noticed where they were was almost where the COTF created the Nights King, which used to be melted all those thousand of years ago. Add in you can see a dock in that scene, it's not out of the realm of possibility that ships were there at one point, long abandoned, and chains were around, or already were had. 

 

Someone else said they snagged them from hardhome and were dragging them around the entire time lol. That one is pretty far fetched. 

 

What is out of the realm of possibility is how does a group of wights that can't swim get to the bottom of that lake and hook up said chains? 

 

Oh well, it was still an exciting episode and if you dig too deep you'll lose your enjoyment! I'm trying not to lose my mind with all the stuff this season and just enjoy it for what it is because I'll be sad once it ends. 

 

Until the spinoff(s) fire up. 

[Kyle 667]

BRRRREASTPLATE STRRRRRETCHER!!!!!!!!

[Victor 10,527]

On 8/22/2017 at 11:06 PM, Devise said:

What did you think they were going to kill off all the main characters

Hello hyperbole my old friend.

 

Obviously main characters have to survive, no matter how unpredictable a show. That's unavoidable by the very nature of storytelling. But what is avoidable is putting characters in situations where they should die and letting them live. GoT has pulled too many punches this season which is why it feels much more like fan fiction now.

[Tyler 881]

21 hours ago, Victor said:

Hello hyperbole my old friend.

 

Obviously main characters have to survive, no matter how unpredictable a show. That's unavoidable by the very nature of storytelling. But what is avoidable is putting characters in situations where they should die and letting them live. GoT has pulled too many punches this season which is why it feels much more like fan fiction now.

 

the icelandic wilding should be dead

gendry should have froze his balls off (what a coincidence he passed out right outside the gate)

jon should have died based on his actions...

 

Like I said earlier the big issue is that it feels like the plot is moving the characters and not the characters moving the plot. There isn't really consequences for actions anymore like the was in previous seasons. Like yes we know Jon "can't" die because he's too important, but then don't have him do dumb shit just to give us that 10 second scene with his Uncle.

[boubabi 4,725]

 

that asshole

[Beaviss 4,949]

SEASON FINALE HYPE!!!!